Dec 2 2010Noah...Where Are The Dinosaurs?: Full-Scale Noah's Ark Replica To Be Built In Cincinnati


So apparently they're going to build a full-scale replica of Noah's Ark outside of Cincinnati. How big is full scale? HUUUUUUUUUGE. I think. But apparently still not big enough to accommodate any dinosaurs. It's enough to make a man question his faith.

Answers In Genesis, which built and operates the religious-themed attraction, plans to build a full-scale wooden replica of Noah's Ark based on biblical descriptions.

The $24.5 million project will be constructed by the same team that built the Creation Museum.

The religious ministry is soliciting online donations to help construct the project, which they expect to draw an estimated 1.6 million visitors per year.

Ken Ham, president and CEO of Answers In Genesis, cites poll data showing that an estimated 63 percent of Americans would visit a full-scale replica of Noah's Ark if one were built in the U.S.

63% of Americans said they'd visit? Is that like, with free airfare and hotel accommodations? Seems steep. But, more importantly -- is there gonna be a petting zoo? And what about a gift shop? Because I will require stuffed-animal proof that I visited.

Full-Scale Replica Of Noah's Ark Planned for outside Cincinnati [cnn]

Thanks to emm jay, who's saving his tourism dollars for a Botanical Garden of Eden.

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Reader Comments

I would only go if it was the ark of the covenant and it would melt faces.

yes indeed, bloodmemries get all the cheez while we silabs bench and do homeworks

So they're going to build it without modern technology and they're going to literally have space fro two of every single animal on the planet, right? And an arborium where they would have kept two of every species of plant on the planet, right? And they're going to have store rooms large enough to keep food for two of every animal for forty days, right? If you think Noah's Ark is a real story you are fucking retarded.

based on fossil records, dinosaurs existed very long before the known animals we see or know today, so at Noah's time, dinos already were extinct.

'Replica' insinuates that there is an original schematic to 'replicate'.

@3 Just because people have faith that things that would be impossible for man but possible for God does not make them unintelligent. It would be a sad life without God in it. Instead of harshly judging others maybe you should take a strong look at yourself.

@3: Stay classy, my friend.

@6 He was talking about you and he nailed it.

@3 You do realize that when the Bible says 2 of every animal that was 12,000 or so years ago (give or take a 1000 years) and that at the point of the flood the mass species diversification that has now taken place causes there to be loads more "animals".

Oh and they were on the ark for 40 days of raining + around 330 days of waiting for all that water to recede.

And if you were ever inclined to look into the information that Ken Hamm and his movement have uncovered you would be surprised at the over whelming accuracy of the Biblical accounts.

@6 It does make them irrational, though.


Um, if I recall in the Bible God didn't "make" the Ark. Noah did.

The Bible is just a crock of shit anyways, and I'm a Roman Catholic. It's a book of made up stories to relate morals and to scare the masses into conformity. Believing that most of it actually happened makes you a full-fledged moron who probably sends hundreds of dollars to televangelists to help them "heal" people.

You're right, God can do anything. He just needs your money to do it! Please provide your credit card details in your next post to allow God to respond to you.

Can a brother get an Amen!?!?

Wow. $24.5 million? How about they give half of that to charity and put the other half towards sending anyone affiliated with Answers In Genesis to the moon, which seems like their original home anyway?

@5 they do have a basic blueprint, the Bible records the length, width and height along with the basic building materials.

I didn't green-light this.

@10: I know some pretty irrational people who are coincidentally emphatic atheists.

Religious beliefs do not correlate to the presence or lack of rational thought. My father is an ordained minister who also has a PhD in physics and taught at MIT. Intelligence and faith can co-exist, despite what many people would like to lead others to believe.

*Looks up @14*

It's ok brah! Remember you put me in charge down here on Earth. Now go back to doing nothing like you usually do.

I got this shit covered!

@11: (in regards to your name) ... actually, I'd wager you're being a dick because the INTERNET makes it possible.

Uh...@9 Creationist...

Creationists believe (Ken Ham included) that the earth was created 6,000 years ago, and that Noah's flood was about 4500 years ago. so your idea that it was 12,000 years ago and pre-diversification is just nonsense.

But don't feel bad, it's no worse than the rest of the made up nonsense surrounding creationism.

All it takes to believe in the earth being created 6000 years ago, is just ignoring all the cultures and societies that existed for thousands of years prior to that time. But they're not white, so they don't count do they?

Well, in your mind God made man. Man made the Internetz.

Therefore God made the Internetz and vicariously made it possible for my Dicktitude.

*shrugs* Simple logic my boy. Simple logic.


Noah's Ark is a real story. Back then there were not as many types of animals and plants as we have on the planet today. Also during that time days were only 7 minutes long and nights were 12 minutes long, so they didn't really require food.

@13 Yeah. In cubits. What a bullshit measurement. Not only is it variable from person to person, it's variable from region to region as well. The Egyptian cubit isn't the same as the Roman cubit isn't the same as the Babylonian cubit... And considering how many times the bible has been revised, it's nonsense to claim knowing the actual size. Not to mention the fact that it never existed.

Oh and there's the fact that in order for Noah to get all the animals in the world, he would have to travel to parts of the world that hadn't been discovered by European/Middle Eastern folk. And how did he get there? By another boat? Also, did he include termites? Or how about mice who could have swamped the population of the other animals and eaten their supplies in only a few generations?

And I'm only glossing over the surface of the grade A bullshit contained in Creationism.

So you can go tuck your tail between your legs and shuffle back to your nutter church.

Circle logic is circular. Sky wizard commands you to believe without proof!

I love how wretchedly obnoxious atheists can get when talking to someone who has even the slightest inkling of religious beliefs, even though they then turn around and claim Christianity to be the reason why people are so intolerant of others.

It's not religion that causes people to be assholes towards each other. It's human nature. Religion is just one of several scapegoats that people brand as the cause for assholishness.

The very fact that so many atheists on this comments section are gang-banging the hell out of anyone who tries to speak out in favor of faith in God is proof enough that you don't need religion to be intolerant of other peoples' beliefs.

Just so some of this is cleared up the Bible doesn't say two of every animal, it says two of every kind. For instance there are tons of different breeds of dogs but they're all considered to be dogs so Noah took two dogs not two of every different kind of dog. In the case of dinosaurs they were probably on the ark but died out because after the flood there were some big changes on Earth. But how did they fit on the ark? Well it never said all the animals were adults. I don't see how the story of Noah's ark is so hard to believe. When you really look at it the story makes a lot of sense. I know some of you will just call me a creationist or whatever but why dont you just look at the facts and research done by Ken Ham it isn't just a ton of speculation.


Er... No. I wasn't gangbanging people who believe in god. I was gangbanging people who believe that the earth is only a few thousand years old, that some old man built a giant boat that carried a pair of every animal on earth inside of it for long enough that he would die from the overwhelming amount of fecal matter being produced, and that this is all somehow backed up by science. So you can take your mythology and shove up it where the sun doesn't shine. This claim of a worldwide flood is not supported by anthropological evidence, geological evidence or fucking plain old logic. It certainly doesn't belong in an overindulgent amusement park funded by tax payer dollars. Plus it lacks everything that makes these parks amusing. I mean, come on... No rollercoaster?

I'm not an Atheist. I was raised Roman Catholic.

I'm just intelligent enough to realize that:

1) Creationism is a joke.
2) God is not all powerful, all-knowing, or able to affect anything here in this existence.
3) Organized Religion was, is, and will continue to be a way to control a population group in order to influence morality.

Spirituality >>>> Religion

The only true "Gods" here on this planet are Humans. I'm not saying a higher power doesn't exist, but he's not a shiny figure in the sky with a rockin' beard who is going to spank me for not agreeing with your idiocy.

@25 And what do they mean by kind? Do they mean species? Because you are still topping the charts in the hundreds of thousands when you look at beetles alone. Kinds is so utterly meaningless. And dinosaurs didn't die out. They evolved into birds... And wait, so if they only took one pair of every kind, does that mean you believe in evolution!?

Also, not really an argument topic but... Ken Ham has the worst case of ugly beard I've ever seen.

If we're going to start building huge made up things, I'll be super pissed if someone doesn't build a "full-scale replica" of the Technodrome.

Turtle power.

@26: Thank you for so succinctly and conveniently proving my point.

@30 And thank you for not reading a word of what I was arguing against. Classic straw-man fallacy, brilliant in its stupidity.

Not worth arguing with him. He knows more than all of humanity and is funnier than all the animals put together. Even a chimpanzebra.

@31: I read all of what you were arguing against. I also saw you inflating your argument yet again with personal attacks against the folks who believe in such things.

"You can take your mythology and shove it where the sun don't shine." Says it all.

The same goes for everyone else who ridicules anyone else's beliefs and tears down their religion, whatever it may be. You consider yourself to be on a higher pedestal than them simply because you feel you can logically prove their beliefs to be false, but choose to do so through derision and aggression. THAT, my friend, was my point, which you have proven seemingly without even realizing it.

Everyone knows it. DOGS know it.

No one is putting themselves on a higher pedestal than you Seth.

You're just putting yourself on a lower one by believing a steaming pile of shit that had been proven wrong a hundred times over.

Oh. You know what? I've changed my mind. All opinions deserve equal respect.
People who believe that Obama is a reptile person is putting forth just as valid an argument as you know... normal people.
And people who believe that world is 6000 years old are just as deserving of respect as centuries of scientific study.
And when I say an invisible sky fairy spoke to me when I was talking to myself, everyone should just agree that it is completely rational and I couldn't possibly be imagining things.

I'VE SEEN THE LIGHT. Praise be to every stupid fucking belief on earth! Facts? Who needs that shit?

And boo hoo. It's the internet. You think I'm going to namby-pamby about your nonsense with nice words?


Should read "People.... are putting forth" above.

Obama is a reptile person? Neat!

Who is Obama?

Ah. I figured. Reminds me of Poe's law.
"Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

But none the less, my points are still valid, you being a troll or not.

I say build it n stuff it full of mexicans and ship em off to antartica.

@36: ... read more carefully what I'm saying, please.

I'm not saying you should accept other peoples' beliefs and just leave them alone. No, by all means, you can debate your point and discuss why you think they are wrong.

Just do so IN A CIVIL MANNER. Blasting them with derogatory remarks and outright calling them morons, branding their God as an "imaginary fairy in the sky," or making it sound as if they made everything up themselves is NOT the way to go about proving your point.

There is a difference between civil, intelligent discourse, and outright flaming. My point is that you were engaging in the latter rather than the former. I'm not saying you should bow to everyone's opinion, no matter how insane. That's just ludicrous.

@40: Also, be wary of the comments on this site... no registration = users posting under any name they please. Clones run rampant 'round these parts.

Needless to say, I'm not a /b/tard.

You're still full of shit though Seth. Civil discourse or not, I have to call a spade a spade.

Also, be wary of me on this site. I am a humorless dick. I'm really good at rehashing GW's jokes as if they were my own though. Plus, I have good grammar and make paragraphs!

It all boils down to this: By all means, engage people who think differently from you if you so desire. Offer up your points and share proof that their side of the issue is wrong. Just please, at the same time, show some respect for their right to believe what they do without resorting to insults, even if they truly are wrong. Otherwise you will shut them off to receiving your viewpoint and you'll end up right back where you started.

That's all I ask. You can ignore it or take it to heart, entirely up to you. Even in the comments section of a geek-related site, it's not outside the realm of reasonability to practice a common sense of decency.

Remember, it's poor manners to tell someone they have poor manners...

I just don't see why I should give any respect to people who believe bullshit. I can't think of a single reason other than, Sagan forbid, I offend their delicate sensibilities.

Civil discourse only applies to people who can form opinions from multiple sources and not just some dusty book cobbled together by religious nuts.


Creationists are entitled to their own opinions and beliefs...what they're not entitled to is their own facts.

If creationists would stick to matters of faith, I doubt you'd hear much attention being paid to them. But they don't, they cross over into the REAL world of science, facts, history, etc and make up bullshit that children would recognize as nonsense. That is not something you just tell people they should "respect".

In short, we can respect other peoples beliefs, but if they don't keep them to themselves, then they are not respecting ours.

@31 well played

It is truly ironic how much faith the "non-religions" put into science that has admitted to not being correct and in need of the “cause one.” That anyone would try to so succinctly sum up the whole of religion by ignoring any supporting facts is as ignorant as ignoring the sum of science. Blind and ignorant to one side is still blind and ignorant. Remember that without God there is no science and that science only helps us to understand the wonders of God better.

Fight harder you guys. You're giving me wood.

why hasnt 46 been promoted to captain of the internet yet? his words can save us all. we must only be kind.

So let me sum up your idea in a few sentences:

1. God made everything.
2. How do we know God made everything?
3. Because God made everything!
4. But no really... What evidence do you have that God made everything and we didn't just arrive here through natural processes?
5. Because God made everything!

Gotcha. Sound logic there.

As someone that was born and raised, and still live in Cincinnati, I would like to make a respectful correction. That nut house of a museum is in Kentucky. Though I've never been, I can only assume they have Jesus riding a dinosaur. Which we all can agree, is awesome.

@52: I think Magnus was moreso suggesting that science should be viewed as the means by which God created everything. There is a logical explanation behind how everything is created, yes -- evolution, natural selection, chance mutations -- but that does not necessarily negate the existence of an intelligent designer.

It's like looking at a painting and crediting its existence only to the brush that was held to paint it, without considering the one sitting at the easel.

There's no logical reason why science and religion can't co-exist. Couldn't evolution be the answer to "how," not the answer to "why?"

Creationism is as misplaced as literalism in my mind. A lot of what is written in the Bible should be taken more as a metaphor rather than word-for-word. At the time when it was originally written, people had no concept of the universe or anything beyond their own sky. How would they understand an explanation of an orchestrated explosion from nothing that spawned planets, galaxies, suns, and other realms that they have never seen?

I do believe God had a hand in guiding the creation of the universe, but I certainly don't believe he just nodded his head like a Genie and everything magically appeared.

Whoops. That was @53, not 52. Dagnabbit.


Doing nothing? Look what I've done right here on this comment page! Not even you can create stupidity in the likes of these creations of mine.

Also, see you at Christmas.

And why (ahem) does there need to be a "why"? Maybe the answer is that there is no "why" beyond how natural processes interact. Assuming that there is a why without any evidence of a why is silly.

You claim that just because everything appears to be all natural in origin, it doesn't discount a supernatural god factor. I say it does just that. Unless you can show me with logic or facts that god had a hand in the universe, then there is no reason to believe. I take the null position as all good scientists do when confronted with a claim with no evidence.

Riddle me this concerning metaphors, what metaphor should I glean from Elisha's bear attack that murder 40 children in Kings? There are countless stories in the bible that seem to have shitty lessons like how to own a slave and how much you should have to pay for raping a girl. So what great moral stories will I get from reading those passages? And if you pull out the "But it's the Old Testament!" argument, I will laugh myself into an early grave.

Was it really a global flood? not only scientific studies says it might had occured, but the Bible says it indeed ocurred,

http://www dot watchtower dot org/e/20080601/article_01.htm

FYI I'm an atheist, but i should point out that the Koran, Bible and even the Epic of Gilgamesh all provide similar measurements for a large boat built under the instruction of God prior to a flood. I just think that's interesting, not trying to make any sort of argument. I'm just wondering if the Unicorn Museum will now go ahead with their plans to build the Dinosaur Submarine. See, dinosaurs are actually alive today, they're just living underground in a hallow earth designed by the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Cthulhu.

@53...Don't forget the eqully dimwitted variation:

1. God made everything.
2. How do we know God made everything?
3. Because God made everything!
4. No, really... What evidence do you have that God made everything and we didn't just arrive here through natural processes?
5. Because the Bible says so...therefore it's fact. All the evidence I need.
6. Facepalm

@60 It could be that all three of those sources derived their writings are from the same area of the world and therefore took some pages from the same initial mythology... But nah. That's too logical, right?

Fable's stretch the truth to teach a moral

Therefore Noah's Ark is a fable. If you believe it is fact then I feel sorry for you. You have a simple mind. Or your parents just told you to believe it.

NO NO NO NO! As someone mentioned, the Ark will be in Kentucky! There is a big difference. Not in Cincinnati, Not in Cincinnati!

Look into mystery religions.

A non-literalist minister actually taught me about those as yet another way to say "you're an idiot if you take anything in the bible literally - it's representative of its time and little more than a way to control people...BUT you can still learn important lessons from it and have faith if you want it."

@65: Bingo.

@62- That probably is the case, and all stories are pulling their information from the same source, most likely a regional folktale. many regions of the world have flood myths, in most cases the flooding represents a purification of sorts. That region used to have significantly more water and vegetation than it does today. I don't believe it is a stretch to assume a large boat was built that people found to be a technological accomplishment, possibly built for the purpose of saving a significant amount of livestock from drowning. I just don't believe it was built on a mission from God, if it was even constructed at all.

Actually if anyone has actually read the Bible, it was SEVEN pairs of each animal. (Genesis Chapter 7)
'1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth."

Two pairs was what was originally instructed in chapter 6, and later was only for unclean animals. Also, it apparently took Noah 100 years to build the Ark.

hmmm...we'll have to call it an early quantum state phenomenon.

So there going to
build the arch 24.5 worth of wood to be wasted as a tourist site. When we have less wood in the forest there going
to do that . If the arch was a true story , Noah and
GOD would not want to be apraised of wasted wood that's not
doing good in the world . Saver your resources don't show off what we don't
have enough of

First as it seems more than one person really doesn’t even know the definition.

Logical-according to or agreeing with the principles of logic, reasonable; to be expected.

@53. Your ignorance to converse a subject is only surpassed by your inability to comprehend it. While your ‘eloquent’ rebuttal is as stunning as grade school writing test, I would state that you either lacked the very basic reading skills to make it though my short text or the simple comprehension to process what you read. I sympathize with your ineptness to learn or perhaps understand so I’ll attempt to ‘dumb’ it down for you.

1.‘Cause One’ is the indefinable (means no one knows) first of everything.
2.This ‘theory’ (a belief that is ‘mostly’ proven) is held by all schools of science.
3.‘Cause One’ is the perpetual (going on forever) answer to every effect.
4. ‘Cause One’ is the ‘God’ of science. It is the cause of all of our reactions.
5.“I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know his thoughts. The rest are details.” Albert Einstein
6.Admitting you know nothing is first steps to learning everything. Found in a fortune Cookie. (seriously even a cookie gets it.)

Like someone said...God ca d anything...but needs money!!! LOL!!!

This Ark will be a fest for church animals..

See you there. I'll be the one at the gate handing out pamphlets about how much bigger it would have to be to fit a pair of every land animals. In fact, I'm taking donations to build a practical ark next to theirs.

I like the url: noahwhere_are_the_dinosaurs_fu

As soon as they build it, I will travel there and in the dead of night, burn it to the ground.

Oh brilliant. Gotta love calling my intelligence into question over a joke.
Alright. Let's have at 'er.

1. I thought most people have agreed that is the Big Bang. Nothing can come before the Big Bang since that was the beginning of time. Without a "before", there is no cause. And we have no way of knowing if cause and effect relationships apply outside of our universe. So that makes the uncaused first cause the Big Bang of our universe at least.
2. This theory is held by cosmology, physics and some planetary sciences. It has nothing to do with evolutionary biology, neuroscience or ecology.
3. Sure. Determinism. I don't see how this is relevant.
4. You call it 'god', I call it the Big Bang. Apparently we are just confused over definitions!
5. Appeal to authority and quote-mining. Check.
6. And this helps prove that god created everything how?

@all @Magnus You're arguing with someone who thinks a cookie produces quaint sayings.

IT's always good to have a few of these with you to hand out at parties:

If you think that a man lived inside of a fish for three days, or that a man made a boat that housed two of every creature on earth, you are a fucking idiot. Period.

"Oh, but it's not literal! It's the message of Jesus that matters!" Even "moderate" Christians have to, by definition, accept that a god celestially raped a woman (let's call it what it is), she gave birth to a wizard, and then that wizard died, came back to life, and then flew away into the sky.

"Is it not enough that the garden is beautiful that there should have to be fairies at the bottom of it?" -Douglas Adams

They should build it in minecraft, be a lot cheaper.

But but... It's so fun. I can't be this harsh with people I actually know who believe in bullshit. It's so nice to just rant, ya know?

Corina and Seth probably need to find jobs.

Just sayin.

@82 Student actually. School just wrapped up for the semester. So... I'm good. Just taking a day before I dive into hardcore studying mode.

Imagine if they took that $25 million and actually used it for something worthwhile rather than fairy tales.

@83 huh...whaddya know...I'm studying hardcore right now!

I should have mentioned - it's moderate Christian hardcore so it's OK. Not like that nasty atheist porn. The are so rude to each other in that.

Being religious is a constant conflict between wanting a market-proven idea of the meaning of life and having to swallow the incredible stories that our moronic ancestors believed. That's what my fortune cookie told me.

After viewing the photo...somehow the music "Rock the Boat" snuck in my mind. Oh, I also enjoy reading these religious debate posts with some popin' corn.

Atheist, Theist, or Agnostic, I think we can all agree that Richard Dawkins is kind of a winy c***.

Atheist, Theist, or Agnostic, I think we can all agree that Richard Dawkins is kind of a c***.

@76. Oh you’re so cute. Let me guess here you’re what 15 maybe 16 with that stunning wit, sharp lexicon and inability to stand behind your own argument. Oh please ‘go easy on me.’
Let me break this mold for you. What came before the Big Bang? Oh yea that’s a tough one. Ok, How about this, define time? (Hint it has nothing to do with that mechanism on the wall.)
You see most modern scientist, smartly, avoid touching on particularly problematic theories for fear of job loss. That doesn’t mean they don’t believe in god, it means they like to eat. (That’s a fact, I can personally back up.) ‘Corina’ every single mathematician will tell you zero cannot exist. This means if you have nothing then nothing happens there is nothing so there is no zero. This is science, so for any action there must be an equal and opposite reaction, that’s natural law. You want to site the Big Bang. I ask you what ignited it. (Hint, refer to my last post it should help)
Now before I bedraggle you to death, I see you are at least clever enough to piece together that the same thing can have dynamically different names that somehow mean the same thing.
“You call it 'god', I call it the Big Bang. Apparently we are just confused over definitions.” (Quoting is how you support and argument. Don’t worry you’ll likely learn this next year in school.)
I was never “confused” you simply failed to grasp the intent of my original post. But it is good to see you at least grasp the very fringe of the concept, you may have hope yet. Or you will continue to cower behind ignorance and statements like ‘I was just joking.’ Truly you are not that hollow are you? People may not like you but at least allow them the chance to respect you for either sticking to your guns or admitting your wrong. Youth is wasted on the young.

@81“But but... It's so fun. I can't be this harsh with people I actually know who believe in bullshit. It's so nice to just rant, ya know?”

Wow you truly are a coward. Well good luck with that.

whoa...Magnus and Steve are looking to take the title of Dick Supreme from Seth/Jonathan! Stay tuned for the conclusion of this epic struggle!

"Religion is the incarnation of the most childish superstitions"

"All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree" -Einstein

Oh so its ok to gang up on belivers as long as they don't fight back....

(looks like you need this one)

hy·poc·ri·sy - a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.

I never said I was just joking. I said it was a joke. Which indeed it was. A joke. Just because it is a joke doesn't make the commentary any less valid. I don't see how calling a spade a spade as it were is not 'sticking to [my] guns'.

And even if I was 15 or 16, I really do not see how that has a bearing on the validity of my arguments. It would just mean I'm presumably younger than you.

But nevermind, let's move on from your decision to mock my supposed age and my labeling of a joke as... a joke.

As far as science knows, time had a beginning. It is not infinite. In this universe, we observe a cause and effect relationship. However, since we are working from a sample size of exactly one (as in we can only observe one universe), we cannot say for a certainty that cause/effect relationships are how all other universes function or what the state of the universe was at time zero. We can only, at this time, go back to the Big Bang. This is the beginning time and space. If it this is time zero (and I thoroughly debate the idea that zero does not exist, but I'll get to that), then there is no before. And there is no cause since cause implies time. Do you follow my reasoning?

I'm not sure I follow your debunking of zero. There is nothing, so nothing happens and because something happened, zero can't exist? I once again point to my argument about our lack of knowledge of what is 'outside' our universe. It is so unfortunate that our language is bound by concepts like time and space since it makes these discussions so difficult, but I don't see how zero can't exist. It is however certainly hard to think about.

Let's say just for argument's sake that the universe did have a first cause. Why is that god? Could it not be a universe making robot? And further more, if you want to claim that everything has a cause then it follows that god had a cause too, n'est pas?

And yes, there are such things as synonyms. But why call it God when it has none of the personal attributes most religious assign to their gods? Even calling something the "Ultimate Reality" which is the preferred vernacular in most Eastern religions is really just saying the "Universe". Except it comes attached with a presupposed notion of the supernatural and the universe does not. Yes, yes. It's just semantics, but using a synonym to prove god's work in the universe is not exactly convincing. I may as well call the Big Bang a giant cheesemonster if we are going throw words around like that.

And you are deluded if you think that scientists are 'hiding' their belief in God to put food on the plate. Hell, evangelicals like Peter Popoff and Ken Ham make way more money that scientists. If it was money they are after, they would simple become preachers.

Hi Steve! Pleased to be your new friend! Your Einstein quote simply refers to the fact that ALL knowledge relies on belief. Me calling you a dick has nothing to do with a gang-bang or not, but instead refers to the fact that you're a dick. I have a Dickometer here and whenever you make a comment it lights up. Well, actually that's my bionic penis and you arouse me, but it's pretty much the same thing.


And I'm done. I think I've said everything I can say on the topic. Sorry for textblock of doom above.

tl;dr I disagree with basically everything you have to say.

Geekologie Comments: "It's Serious Business™"

was there really a flood such as is described in the bible ? which is a book, written and rewritten ov and over and again by men of little schooling, an little knowledge. .Prove to me that Mark, etc, really existed. Prove to me that these STORIES handed down over and over are really true, not just what people wanted it to say ..ONE MORE QUESTION===HOW LONG IS A CUBIT..??

Really if you make a ark for 24.5 million you're doing something wrong.
Oh and another ark? the dutch are building a 2nd one also full scale it should be close to finishing.


well the theory is still not completely understood during the early moments of the big bang. pre Planck epoch, theories are just speculation, because they rely on general relativity and that breaks down approaching a singularity unless you are using brane cosmology or you don't actually believe in the presence of a singularity- in which case you still have a lot of issues that need to be sorted out). which does not answer whether time existed before the singularity or not. science by definition relies on empirical evidence, and we are talking about a theory that we might not ever be able to complete (even if getting everything after the Planck epoch is still pretty accurate). maybe we will. i think that if we were able to create a unified theory, it will probably open up another can of worms. but its ok to do our best, and not to know. humans are resilient. but currently, in my opinion, it does take faith to believe in the presence of a singularity, because it is not proven. perhaps we will come up with a better way of understanding cosmology beyond the horizons of science. its cool, there are plenty of things where science can't tell us jack squat. in my opinion that is where religion comes in. but if you are ok without needing answers to those questions, just like we are able to accept the big bang without proof of a singularity, then that is ok too. personally, i feel like the big bang theory smacks of creationism just like it did when Monsignor Lemaitre proposed the theory.

as far as this ark build is concerned, if they wanted to impress me, and drive tourism, then they can forego the $24 million and have a few dudes build it by hand. noah wouldn't have had a massive influx of money to fund his project, and the use of sophisticated building techniques. DO IT OLD SCHOOL

There WILL be Dinos on the ark afterall... because it makes sense? No.

Because it's AWESOME!


Straw man - A made-up version of an opponent's argument that can easily be defeated. To accuse people of attacking a straw man is to suggest that they are avoiding worthier opponents and more valid criticisms of their own position: “His speech had emotional appeal, but it wasn't really convincing because he attacked a straw man rather than addressing the real issues

Good luck in school. I am sure that as you grow you will see the folly of your statements here. You have proved that you are likely as young as I thought and it was perhaps unkind of me to rip your position so harshly, as you are ill equipped to fully understand my argument. For that I am sorry. Your lack of understanding is likely the fault of public schools. I would urge you to read more, try stepping outside your comfort level in that area. Many a “jester” could have been king if only they had had convention of the heart and mind. Thank you for your efforts at a retort.

@Magnus. You may want to check your lexicon for the difference between site and cite.


I have little doubt that you indeed have a fake penis, um thank you for sharing that your in fact Dick less.


Bah. I couldn't resist.

What was your point then, Steve/Magnus? That we can't define time so there is a god? Or was it that time is god and that is the uncaused first cause? Or that the definition of god is the uncaused first cause? I just don't see how your arguments, even though I don't entirely get what you trying to say, support a god in the classical sense of the word (not the wishy-washy new agey sense of the word god). If anything, they support an uncaused first cause. You say that thing is god. But beyond stating causal relationships, you haven't provided me anything beyond 'zero does not exist' and blabber about definitions or why god is the best answer.

I don't see how any of what I said is a straw-man. Perhaps a misunderstanding. Maybe you if you tried breaking up your posts in bite size chunks, my wee little twenty-one year old mind will be able to grasp it better.

Corina, the only thing I can really say regarding your age is that with time you'll realize it's futile to argue with belief. Also with dicks. Otherwise, I imagine that at 21 you are more well-read than the bulk of the American population and are clearly capable of high-level reasoning.

And Steve, in your advanced years and all your didn't learn about grammar? Were you too busy discovering all the secrets of the universe? Yes, I tried to redirect things there...let's get back to the topic at hand. My bionic penis is a lot like Rudolph. It wouldn't work for Santa though because he's a nice guy. If you hopped on that sleigh one foggy Christmas eve, I could easily guide our way to deliver gifts to the world thanks to the way you make my dong light up. Oh, and also I have magical flying powers. God gave them to me for being a dick, which I'm guessing is how you got your flying powers too.

Oh Answers In Genesis, is there no low you wont sink to in order to fuck with children's minds and undermine a real world education? heres an idea why not...DONATE the money your using on your useless attempt to legitimize your pointless and cartoonishly retarded beliefs on oh i dont know...starving people? building homes? bailing out people in debt, jump starting the economy? any of that sound like a better use of your resources then building an "arc"? And arc by the way that could in NO WAY house, feed and hydrate a pair of EVERY animal on earth, even the ones from continents that the bible had no idea where even fucking stupid.

@103 As a physics PhD, I find your use of language offensive and condescending. And masturbatory...


is that to say that you don't agree with what i stated?

@N I'm sure you're all going to convince each and every one of you of every argument. Good night.

in the beginning there was nothing. and then it exploded. It's been proven by like science and stuff some teacher told me in high school but I never read it myself. But you people out there that "believe" in religion. you guys are stupid. Oh. and racist. I'd go so far to even say homophobe. I never read the Bible so I'm obviously an expert. I say fuck a lot so clearly i'm a fuck ton smarter than you ass-monkeys that read things and study them a bit before making up my mind that your an idiot because I know that I evolved from a monkey's ass.

So there. Fuck fuck. ass ass. your a stupid racist idiot homophobe you see it any other way and I WILL not engage in intelligent discourse about it because I'm more evolved than you. So there.

@115 You forgot to include a moderately-related quotation from a famous name to support your point, you black fag.

My point Corina is that you lack the effective education or wisdom to support your own argument. Your rebuttals were weak and undefined and not supported by any fact. Your desire to “pick” on those that disagree with your point of view named you little more than childish coward. That you thought any of what you said was in a jovial voice is not only ill informed but sadly propagating a culture of ignorance. But then perhaps that is what you wish to be another of the mindless followers that never question anything unless it’s “cool” to do so. You will learn this in time or you will not, though it will be a truly wasted life if you fail to grasp these simple concepts. While I doubt that you are 21, if you are you have a lot of catching up to do. To attack someone’s belief and then being shocked that someone would not believe as you do and then worse not even be able to support your own belief sadly names you a failure. You know little to nothing about what you’re attacking and then support it with wreaked quotes from a high school text book. You are the amalgamation of years of not paying attention to anything beyond what other people tell you is “cool.” You’re worse than racist as your ignorant to your own actions. That Corina this is my point.

Steve, my friend! You forgot to say anything about my penis. Don't worry - it didn't forget about you. The glow is incredible.

In Catholic school, we learned that a majority of the stories in the Old Testament were written down after having been orally passed from generation to generation over many, many years. By the time these stories were scribed in ink, they had changed drastically. Our class actually played a game of telephone to demonstrate this effect (i.e. you tell someone something and then have them pass it down the line to the next person and by the time it reaches the end, the information has changed quite a bit.) We learned that many Biblical stories were also allegories that were never meant to be taken literally but were closer to the concept of fables. Fundamentalists, however, read the Bible and take it word for word, without considering the fact that it was actually written by a community of people with their own agendas and intents. And that's why we have people building full-size arks and shit. Effin' crazies.

Just wanted to point out that it is OUTSIDE of Cincinnati in N Kentucky, not in Cincinnati proper. Maybe it does not make a difference to most people, but many of us Cincinnatians are horrified to be associated with such a project.

@all @Corina. I'm with Corina. Your responses sound like self-satified undergraduate pseudo-philosophy. @113 Hawkings latest work deals with spontaneously created universes with the present as the only boundary condition. See, I sound like a douchebag, right?

Having read your comments Steve, it is with no small amount of amusement that I regard your self-inflated sense of intelligence and station in life for what it is; the musings of one pissant who believes himself king of a hill of pissants. But because you seem to take yourself so seriously, believe yourself to actually be as intelligent, rational and witty as you espouse, and think you've actually managed to prove yourself a more enlightened individual than your fellow debater, I instead only have equal measures of pity and amusement for you. The sad part is that you are probably in fact as old as I, but due to arrested development from an inflated sense of self worth, are so in count only.

Please, continue XD

Never mind, I see that Steve mentioned his age, and he is in fact exactly where I would have pegged him intellectually, for his age.

I'm older than God.


no, i don't think you sound like a douchebag, i think you sound like a nice person trying to start a conversation, albeit in a roundabout way. what work are you referring to?


religion...u mad?


If I may, I will address your first statement - that the stories were passed by word of mouth and would have been distorted with each re-telling like Chinese Whispers - unfortunately this is a mistake at best, and a lie at worst. The stories were not passed from mother-son-grandchild in the way that you imagine - as a conversation one day in a crowd, it was passed from priest to priest. The priest was required to memorise each word, study it aggressively and be able to pass it on exactly as he was taught. This isn't such an amazing feat when you consider their entire lives were devoted this single most important task - this was his job. The closest thing we would have today to compare with this training is in athletics - where the athletes can train for most hours every single day until they have perfected their skill - and continue to train in order to maintain it - similarly the priests of that time would have trained for years to memorise even a small piece of scripture.

In regards to your second statement: That the stories are fables with no basis in fact - that is something that is up for debate. You were not there, nobody submitting to this article was there, therefore without a time machine you can never prove your version of history as indisuptuable fact. Historians and archaeologists refer to the bible as one of the most accurate recordings of history in the world, the bible confirms the existence of many civilisations, cities, historical figures and events over the last 4000 years more perfectly than any other historical document we have discovered - including the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus - the very man who confirmed the "fable" of Noah and the Ark.

@ALL: In any case, regardless of what you believe and how aggressively you choose to shout it to the world - you must consider the possibility that you are wrong.
Everyone (including myself) submitting to this page must consider the possibility that perhaps they are wrong and that we all need to try and understand and respect where others are coming from - insults don't change anything and you end up looking immature and therefore ignorant.

It reminds me of a simple quote: If you throw dirt at your opponent - you are only losing ground.

To finish up: It doesn't matter to me what you say, because one day God will return and judge all of us - insulting me won't change that. How will you be judged? Myself - I pray that God will be forgiving and merciful to all of us.

Two thumbs up for deforestation just to build an object that has only ever existed in the minds and stories of christians, as well as the earlier religions they stole the tale from. Oh, I forgot, if you put your faith in "god" you are impervious to climate change and CO2, among other green house gases. At least it will be a lovely summer home for woodpeckers, termites, grubs and a multitude of other wood boring creatures.

The great flood of SPERM!

Alright. Let's just say that I didn't argue my point properly. I didn't successfully defend my position that there is no evidence that a god created the universe because I didn't provide evidence that there is no evidence... I can't defend a negative. I'm not the person making a positive claim.You are the one claiming that god exists and created everything and the onus is one you to provide substantial evidence. All I can do is refute the claims you make and ask you why you believe what you do. All I have been trying to do is show you why your arguments are not based in science and how they make staggering assumptions about the nature of the beginning of the universe.

Yes. There could be a god. But until I see evidence to support that claim, I have to go on the knowledge accumulated by years of study by some truly brilliant minds about the origins of the universe. And that knowledge does not involve a god.

If you would just stop insulting me for a half a moment and re-explain your reasoning behind why god is responsible for everything and that bit about zero not existing, perhaps I would have something more substantial to work with in my rebuttal.

By the way, I just love that the 'Big Bad Atheist' mantra is toted out anytime an atheist challenges the beliefs of a theist. It would seem asking questions, making jokes and fucking swearing are considered tantamount to oppression nowadays.

And I love how I don't question anything because I believe in that the scientific method is the best way of explaining our natural world.

I'm worst than a racist, eh? L-fuckin'-O-L.
Godwin's Law in three... two... one...

Corina, it's because of people like you that the Holocaust happened.

"Everyone (including myself) submitting to this page must consider the possibility that perhaps they are wrong...


...To finish up: It doesn't matter to me what you say, because one day God will return and judge all of us - insulting me won't change that. How will you be judged? Myself - I pray that God will be forgiving and merciful to all of us."

Ah. So you mean that everyone who posts here should consider the possibility that they are wrong except you. Because you know your god is coming back and he will smite us all with his big, sweaty judgement rod. Ooh ooh. Smite me harder!

I'm wrong.

To quote Gervais, it's got to fit at least 10 million animals, admittedly alot are insects but still, i'm exceptionally sceptical.

Louis of

^ lol.

and yeah i dont believe in noah's ark. i mean it's completely useless. im reading ken ham's shit on noah's ark and i cant believe he was or IS a science teacher.

If that is the choice you make, nothing anybody can tell you and no evidence to show you will make any difference to your beliefs, It won't stop us trying though. So get used to it.

The day is coming when we'll both be dead and then we'll know the truth. Either you're right and we'll just rot in the ground - in which case congratulations on "winning" - Or God is right, and we'll both be judged.

But that's the thing... Evidence can change my mind! I don't deny the possibility of a god. I just have never been presented with evidence that supports the god hypothesis. I'm a soul ripe for the picking! Save me from this hell I've forced on myself by looking to logic instead of superstition.

And according to my current thoughts on life after death, I won't know whether you were right or I was right. My brain will be shut down and my consciousness permanently dissolved. I just will cease to exist much like it was before my birth.


@ 135 - You should read some of John Woodmorappe's details in regards to the Ark. The bible never mentioned that representives of each animal species were to be on the Ark, only land animals that breathed through nostrils. Charles Darwin himself proved that insects could survive on floating mats of vegetation out on the open sea for months. This reduces the 10 million animals on the Ark to a little over 10 thousand - plenty of room.

So Touchdown Jesus burns down outside of Cinci, and they build this to substitute?

well said 142. well said.

So... I've been to the Creation Musuem... and I am so fucking excited for this next comedic venture.

Also, will it be a zoo?

Im going to put my two bits into the debate in the form of maths. Im not a religeous person but im not a total non believer either (until i see proof)


In Genesis 6:15 it says the ark was built to these specs. 300 cubits long, 50 wide and 30 high. Whats a cubic though? Depending on what you read its from around 450mm to 550mm long. For arguements sake i'll round it up to 2ft (about 600mm or 609.6mm to be exact.)

Theres about 31000 different species of animals currently recorded. Lets round that down to 30,000 for the sake of round numbers. I havent included the 20 odd thousand species of fish (obviously) and i havent bothered putting in the million + species of insects.

Im going to guess the arks design and im going for an almost 'shoe box' design with a slight 'hull' shape to the bottom for maximum internal capacity within the spec outlined in the bible. Im also assuming that Moses didnt think that "hey maybe i'll build it bigger" becase he was told the specs by God and IF god IS real im doubting anyone, even moses, wanted to f#$@ with his instructions.

So if my maths is correct i estimate theres approx 85cm2 per animal OR the equivalent of a double shotglass (each pair mind you!).

This doesnt include food. And based on the last time i went to the zoo, each time one of the elephants took a dump it the space occupied by said dump would mean the extinction of 10-15 smaller species.

The real story here is that Cincinnati blows. Seriously.

"hey guys lets build an ark! then we can find bigfoot and fish for the loch ness monster!" i got an idea why dont we use the money to build a school or some low income housing? you know something helpful.

and, mmmm off course, everyone in teh Ark will be Whitey whitey Africans, or Asians...or Pre Colombian Tribes..

Let's doooo belieeeeeeve...

Rool the credits, and the Paypal account!!!!

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I am racist and I hate everyone that doesn't agree with me. I am safe here behind this computer so fuck you all.

I rock....

Oh and my robo penis is bigger than anyone's. I love it much!

I'm a little ashamed of my state and the fact that our Democratic Governor is supporting the project with state funds. I suppose the upside is that there will be jobs created.

I've heard for a mere $40 entry fee you can see illustrations of humans walking with dinosaurs in the Creativity Museum. Let GW's wet dream commence!

Also, debating religion with people that don't share your views is a complete waste of time.

The most disappointing thing about this thread is the paramount prejudice and stance of non-tolerance by nearly all of the parties. The fascist attitudes of some (not all) atheists and christians make them more alike than not.

long time reader, first time poster....

Something is missing from this conversation.


Eggs is how you would accommodate dinosaurs, IF indeed they had not been extinct.

@151, that makes the people alike and people are dumb, not the philosophies.

I would like to inform those who wonder how dinosaurs would have fit in the ark that young/baby dinosaurs would fit perfectly.

Kentucky is fast becoming the uncontested nadir of intelligent thought.

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